Sticky Lawyer Storytime: From Litigation to ADR to Children’s Literature

John Reed [00:00:00] At the risk of embarrassing my now adult kids, I loved reading books to them when they were little. Although there's really little risk of embarrassing them because I know they don't listen to their dad's podcast.

[00:00:12] We used to have tummy time, where we'd squeeze next to each other on a twin bed, chins propped on our hands. We went Where the Wild Things Are. We visited Thomas and Friends on Sodor, and we got silly with Boynton and Seuss. I totally rocked the character's voices, by the way. Just saying. 

[00:00:28] While there are lawyer authors who've produced chart-topping legal thrillers and courtroom dramas, we kind of expect that. But a hard-charging attorney who writes worthy of tummy time and my bespoke voice characterizations? That's unexpected, and probably a Sticky Lawyer. 

[00:00:45] In a first for the podcast, today's guest is an alter ego. Alysen Bayles, that's her pen name, is an accomplished defense litigator who parlayed her early adoption of alternative dispute resolution into her current role, overseeing mediation and assessment programs for a US Federal District Court. But Alysen is also the author of three children's books, inspired by her longstanding love of animals that started during her childhood on a farm in Wisconsin. Adhering to the maxim of "write what you know," Alysen's book features a counter-surfing dog and his person, a girl whose mother is a judge. If you're thinking this will be an exploration of split personalities, you may be right. Let's find out. 

[00:01:26] Alysen, welcome to Sticky Lawyers.

Alysen Bayles [00:01:29] Thank you so much, John. It's a pleasure to be here today.

John Reed [00:01:32] So, by way of explanation, for professional and ethical considerations, you are Alysen for purposes of our conversation. Hence the reason for not using your given name or the name of the court where you work. Is that fair? 

Alysen Bayles [00:01:45] That is correct.

John Reed [00:01:46] Okay. What came first? An interest in writing or an interest in law?

Alysen Bayles [00:01:51] I would say an interest in writing. It was really cultivated by my mother growing up, and then in college is when I ended up with an interest in law.

John Reed [00:02:03] Let's work backward, starting with your legal career because I want to focus more on the writing thing for the big payoff at the end. What did you have in mind for your practice when you were in law school?

Alysen Bayles [00:02:14] I ended up teaching a graduate course in Healthcare Risk Management, which I loved, and I was also a member of the Journal of Dispute Resolution. But the opportunities to work full-time in either field, at least back in 1989, were far and few between. And so, I ended up smack dab in the middle of litigation, not quite expecting that, but only because I ended up taking a position in-house with a Dutch-owned life and health insurance company and ended up working with one of their attorneys, overseeing litigation.

John Reed [00:02:56] I went to law school about the same time you did and alternative dispute resolution, ADR, was still somewhat nascent then. You mentioned you were on the University of Missouri's Journal of Dispute Resolution. What was it that caused you to gravitate towards ADR at a very early stage? What was the attraction?

Alysen Bayles [00:03:16] Oh, primarily, it was because Professor Phil Peters was working on the Nancy Cruzan case, and that was the first real right-to-die case, so to speak. He ended up utilizing me as a researcher. And in the course of that, I realized that there were so many disputes that were involved. And as I was continuing to be a guest lecturer for the graduate course in risk management, I also recognized that there were a lot of disputes in hospitals involving staff privileges. So, I ended up writing an article about that to reduce conflict because there is plenty of stress in hospitals without also adding that stress.

John Reed [00:04:07] There's one kind of common theme amongst Sticky Lawyers and it boils down to one word: Pivot. You may have something in mind for what you want to do that doesn't involve the law, or when you get to law school, you have something in mind for your legal career. Your putting two and two together to say ADR in a healthcare setting. That was certainly before its time.

Alysen Bayles [00:04:27] It was. In fact, I had talked with the medical school about the possibility of integrating some type of dispute resolution program with the medical students and, no disrespect at all to the medical school at the time, but let's just say that that idea fell flat.

John Reed [00:04:50] You had this idea, and yet your first job out of law school was something completely different. Let's talk about that. 

Alysen Bayles [00:04:56] I worked in-house for two different companies before I went into private practice and started doing litigation handling cases completely on my own as a litigator, although I did, sometimes have second chair. Sometimes I was second chair, but primarily was first chair once I went into private practice. So, it was a different transition than most; most people do start in litigation and then go in-house 

John Reed [00:05:27] Law firms have inherently built into their structure mentoring. You come in as a new associate and there's somebody more senior who's showing you the ropes. Where did you learn your chops? Who mentored you when your first job is in an in-house law department doing litigation?

Alysen Bayles [00:05:45] So I had a general counsel who had been in litigation himself before coming in-house. And then I also ended up having as a mentor, which was kind of unusual and didn't really appreciate the full scope of that opportunity at the time being so young, but the president of the company took me under his wing. And so I learned a lot about business and he ended up having me work directly with some insurance agents, and so I really learned what it means to be boots on the ground, the ins and outs of contracts. 

John Reed [00:06:28] And so I have to ask. Here, you are in the hallowed grounds of an in-house law department. You've got a great gig from what you described. What drew you from there to go and work the billable hour in a law firm?

Alysen Bayles [00:06:43] So that was in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, where I ended up meeting my husband who was transferred to Wisconsin. And having grown up in Wisconsin, I was thrilled with the idea of going back to Wisconsin. So, I ended up working in-house there. 

[00:06:57] It was a commercial general liability and a bonding company, and they had a lot of very complex cases. A lot in the area of professional liability, everywhere from psychologists to things that we don't necessarily think about in terms of professional liability. Daycares. 

[00:07:17] And so I met a litigator out of Kansas City and working on an incredibly difficult case, and he had a need for a lawyer in Springfield. It was through that connection that ultimately, I came and worked with him for a period of time in Kansas City and then opened up their Springfield office in 1997, I believe it was.

John Reed [00:07:43] I'm not good at math, but eight years in-house, working at a law firm, and then opening up a satellite office for a larger law firm. There are people that don't do that in the course of 30 or 40 years. So, for you to do it in eight years is quite something. 

[00:07:58] What are some of the cases you handled that stand out? The issues that you face that were novel or the results that you're most proud of.

Alysen Bayles [00:08:06] Yeah, so one of the most challenging cases that I ever handled was a case of first impression at the time. And it actually involved a daycare and several medical providers, and it was a horribly tragic case. It turned out to be this little girl who was severely abused, likely by a boyfriend and the mother. There ultimately were never any criminal charges, but there was a very complex civil case that was brought, and the primary issue of first impression had to do with mandatory reporting, of both the medical professionals and the daycare. Should they have been aware of signs of abuse? 

[00:08:55] And, startling was having the plaintiff's own expert admit in the middle of trial that there would not have been any way for anyone to have known about this abuse absent having done a full body bone scan, which was not the standard at the time.

[00:09:20] And the injuries to this little girl were just absolutely deplorable. But that case definitely stuck with me. It was a case—just the jury selection alone was such an incredible challenge, the emotion of it. And then, when closing argument came, we, all of the defense attorneys, were committed to not shedding a tear, and by the time it was over, every single person in the courtroom, including the judge, was in tears.

John Reed [00:09:57] We all see the television ads. insurance companies are not your friend. The insurance companies don't want to pay you a dime. While there is truth to the idea that insurance companies are in the business of making money and they want to protect their assets and whatever else, to say insurance companies, but more importantly, the insurance defense attorneys who are engaged to represent them are heartless and stoic, is complete fallacy. I thank you for telling that story because I think that's important for people to hear.

Alysen Bayles [00:10:29] I did insurance defense work for a significant part of my career, and there were so many incredibly difficult cases, and also opportunities to work with people that I would've never had an opportunity to work with. From engineers to farmers to a hometown store owner. I appreciated those opportunities and my experience all in all. And my own opinions were that, more often than not, insurance companies tried to do the right thing in any number of incredibly difficult circumstances.

John Reed [00:11:11] You and I have talked before, we're talking now. You are warm and engaging, Alysen. You just don't strike me as a badass litigator, so you have to convince me. Tell me why you were all that and a bag of chips in the courtroom.

Alysen Bayles [00:11:24] Well, you know, it was interesting. In fact, a plaintiff's attorney that I ended up becoming really good friends with, he at one point in a case when we weren't quite so friendly, and it was a really difficult case, said, "You know what? You're just a cold-hearted defense lawyer." 

[00:11:43] And there is a certain persona that you have to take on, especially when you're dealing with very difficult cases. I mean, I had a number of death cases. I had multimillion-dollar, even billion-dollar cases, and I will say that there is a certain persona that you have to take on to be strong, to compartmentalize. And I will also say I'm not proud of the fact that there were times in arguments and briefs I said things that in hindsight, I wish I had not said.

[00:12:18] I think you can be kind and compassionate and still be a strong badass litigator, without going down the road that sometimes I did go down. That was probably too much of a personal attack, on reflection, either on opposing counsel or on the opposing party. And that has become more apparent to me, certainly as I've gotten older and now being exclusively in dispute resolution.

John Reed [00:12:49] Well, I thank you for that introspection and circumspection and I wish more people would take that approach, too. So, thank you for that. 

[00:12:58] You had an academic background in ADR. When did it first surface in your practice?

Alysen Bayles [00:13:04] So, you know, early on in, when I was doing litigation, I was involved in courts that required parties to go to mediation early on in their cases. So, I was taking my own clients to mediation. And it was actually through that process that I met the late Jim Condra, who became a real mentor of mine. He was a mediator in Springfield, Missouri, long before there really was much known about mediation as a practice. Jim had been a litigator and then converted to mediation. And so, through the course of mediating, I'm sure over 150 cases with Jim, Jim really encouraged me to look at becoming a mediator. And so that started to solidify a little bit more, probably 10 to 12 years into my litigation career, and then it became more of a word of mouth just because I had a full litigation practice where people started using me as a mediator, and then I started doing arbitration as well.

John Reed [00:14:17] And for listeners who aren't lawyers or who may not be as familiar with ADR, can you take a moment to describe the why, the what, and the how behind it, and the advantages it offers or can offer over traditional courtroom litigation?

Alysen Bayles [00:14:32] ADR is a really complex subject because there's so many different forms of ADR, but probably the one that people are most familiar with, at least name-wise, is mediation. And the advantage to mediation is that it allows an opportunity to bring people together. And when I first started doing it, which is probably going to sound foreign to a lot of people, we would bring everybody together for the entire day. So, we would literally get together in a room. We would talk about the dispute. If we worked through lunch, we would have lunch together. And we would figure out ways to resolve a dispute. 

[00:15:13] The reason it is so beneficial, even though it has changed now to more of having separate breakout rooms, caucus sessions. A lot of mediators don't even bring the parties together at the outset. I'm different than that. I almost always, except in really sensitive cases such as sexual abuse, always bring the parties together. But it allows a party to truly have a voice. Because in litigation, if you think about it, especially in depositions, any good lawyer who's preparing their client is telling the client, just answer the question.

[00:15:52] And mediation allows a client to do so much more than that, to truly have a voice to tell their story. To be heard. And that is probably the most significant component of mediation, is allowing that party an opportunity to be heard without fear of some type of adverse ruling by the court; some type of adverse instruction by the attorney. And having a voice. And especially in employment cases, in even complex commercial cases, people often don't feel as though they've had a voice. And so, giving them that opportunity and having them be part of constructive solutions. Frankly, I've had parties come up with better solutions to resolving disputes than sometimes the attorneys have come up with.

John Reed [00:16:51] There's a common belief that mediation, arbitration, we think of those as means to resolve the case. But you can also have pre-suit mediation. You can have mediation just on the evidence discovery, the scope of discovery. 

[00:17:07] You referenced something interesting earlier, the idea of creativity, where usually judges and juries rule on what's before them or award damages on what's before them. So it seems that with your shuttle diplomacy, either between rooms or putting the parties together, you can help them, maybe not for them, but you can help them fashion a resolution that they might not think they would get or have in a courtroom. There is that leeway. Is that a fair assessment?

[Alysen Bayles 00:17:39] Absolutely, John. That is one of the real benefits, you know, because courts are constrained. And I know there are a lot of people who have disdain for certain court opinions, but when you recognize that judges are limited to working within the confines of what the law may allow at that time and what the rules of evidence may allow, parties can come up with very creative solutions that frankly, the law may not allow. And not that they're doing anything illegal, but it allows them an opportunity to come up with a solution that oftentimes can foster a relationship going forward. 

[00:18:23] I've found that, especially, you talked about pre-suit mediation, which is something I did a lot in private practice, and in the employment context that can be critical because oftentimes you're having disputes come up. You may have a very good employee, but maybe circumstances have changed with somebody who's a supervisor or with the job task, and if you can figure out a way to work with them and come up with a productive way to resolve their dispute, you can oftentimes find that that employee who brought the complaint can be such an asset to the business or corporation long term.

John Reed [00:19:04] We know statistically fewer than 2%, in some cases, fewer than 1% of cases go to trial. And there are lawyers who are quote-unquote litigators who have never tried a case. And they may be 10, 15, 20 years into their careers. It's not a judgment on them or their skills. What are your thoughts on building ADR and negotiation techniques into the law school curriculum for those that want to go into litigation? It seems like if mediation and settlement is the norm, are attorneys coming out of law school and more junior in their careers, are they ready, do you think?

Alysen Bayles [00:19:43] You know, to be candid, the answer is no. But that is shifting, and a large part of that shift has to do with the next-gen bar exam that is being implemented in phases in 2026. And I don't want to cast a net across all law schools because there are some law schools who have really focused on negotiation, client relationship, conflict resolution to the extent that other law schools haven't.

[00:20:16] Going back to early on in my career, and even being on the Journal of Dispute Resolution, I probably didn't appreciate the extent that that skillset in dispute resolution permeates everything that we do, not only in the law, but in society.

[00:20:35] On a daily basis, whether it be with our children, whether it be with a spouse, a partner, even going to a store, sometimes we're involved in negotiation and conflict resolution. I'm actually writing a book right now on “Beyond Truce with Bruce: Resolving Conflict,” geared at young children. Having that skill set and continuing to build that skill set throughout the course of your career, regardless of whether you go into law or you're a litigator, is absolutely essential.

John Reed [00:21:08] A lot of people don't or may not know the process for selecting a mediator, the process by which the parties select a mediator. It's not one suggests the name and the other says, “Great, let's do it.” Right? There's various systems for doing that. So, while there is a need to have a mastery of ADR techniques, and probably as important, you mentioned earlier all of your different experiences in different types of matters and different types of issues and disputes and disagreements. Beyond all that, isn't it important to have a reputation for fairness and impartiality so that the parties can agree and say, "Alysen is totally who we want to have oversee this matter or help us to reach a conclusion?”

Alysen Bayles [00:21:57] Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, and there's been a lot of focus over the past few years on implicit bias, but I think removing your own bias and being open. Active listening is huge for a mediator. And not pre-judging. That's one thing that I find as a mediator. I may read pleadings, or I may read position statements, and I'll kind of have an idea in my mind of, “oh, this is what the party is like,” or “this is what the attorney is like.”

[00:22:29] But there's a huge amount of psychology that goes into it, neuroscience. I often tell people, one of the best books that has everything and nothing to do with mediation and other ADR is “The Body Keeps the Score” because it talks about so many different experiences that people have and how they approach conflict, and trauma. It's key as a mediator, and to be able to be insightful and know what the bounds are in any given dispute. I mean, frankly, it's something that I continue to work on on a daily basis, and I think anybody in ADR is doing the same.

John Reed [00:23:17] So after years in private practice, very successful law firm practice, you again went in-house, as it were, but with a federal court. Talk to us about the role that you have now and what your responsibilities are, please. 

Alysen Bayles [00:23:31] Sure. So, during the pandemic, the first year of the pandemic, I had an opportunity to come to a federal court and oversee their mediation and assessment program. And it was actually a court that I had served as a litigator, taking my own clients to mediation and other ADR in that program. And then I actually served on their panel of mediators. 

[00:24:00] We now call them neutrals because we recognize the importance of utilizing a number of different ADR techniques. Mediation, arbitration, neutral evaluation, facilitative communications. I could go on and on, but I won't. So, I oversee that program, and we have, on average, about a thousand cases — civil cases — that come through our program each year. 

[00:24:26] And then, I do mediations myself. I also do a lot of facilitative communications and some neutral evaluations. And when I came in the middle of the pandemic, our particular court had a requirement for ADR to occur in person. Well, of course, we couldn't do that, and so we didn't want to lose momentum. And we ended up developing virtual guidelines. And if anybody had ever told me that I would've now done over 300 Zoom mediations, I would've said, you're crazy. But I have, and they work. 

[00:25:06] Now they don't work in all situations. There are huge benefits to getting people together. Those walks down the hall, at break over coffee. You don't really get a good perception of people by Zoom as well as you do in person. There are still huge benefits to bringing people together. 

[00:25:30] We're now out of the pandemic; what I've found is a lot of people are wanting to come back in person, or if not completely in person, some type of hybrid.

John Reed [00:25:40] Is there a different set of advocacy skills for the advocates when it comes to virtual versus in-person?

Alysen Bayles [00:25:48] I think there absolutely is. I mean, you have to be aware of the environment. For example, I had a sexual harassment case where the attorney and the client were not in the same location and the client got on screen and had a partially nude picture in the background. So, needless to say, it was a difficult case anyway. Starting off did not help. 

[00:26:13] So you really have to think about, okay, if my client's not going to be with me, what environment are they going to be in? Do they truly have a secure environment? Are they comfortable in that environment? I've had people in cars. We don't allow them to travel down the road, but we understand that sometimes that is the only confidential, secure place that they can be in.

[00:26:39] For lawyers, you need to prepare your client for that. How does that environment feel for you? Are you comfortable in that environment? Do you believe you can have a say in that environment? So, thinking about those things that we would've never thought about as lawyers coming into mediation. And then the other thing in terms of virtually, we all talk over each other. Unfortunately, it just happens. It happens in person, it happens virtually. I think it happens more so virtually. So, being cognizant of that, preparing your clients for that, here's how to approach it. There is such thing as Zoom fatigue. I can assure you, I've had it. And so, you need to let your clients be comfortable talking about that and if they need to take a break, give them that opportunity.

[00:27:37] I actually do specific training on how you, as a neutral and how you as an attorney advocate, help to prepare people for a virtual mediation or other virtual ADR.

John Reed [00:27:50] And I would hope that your virtual advocate training also includes not having a cat filter. I've seen that's important. 

Alysen Bayles [00:27:59] Well, it is, although I will say, one of the things that really has been most beneficial about virtual mediation is I have gotten to know so much about people. Dogs, cats, a big aquarium in the background. And it is amazing how many times you can find common ground in just knowing a little bit about the person's personal life. And so that actually has afforded a benefit that we would've never had in in-person mediations.

John Reed [00:28:36] Well, I could go off on troll dolls and other things that are on people's desktops, but you've given me an even better segue. Let's stop talking about the law. Let's start talking about fictional dogs and cats.

[00:28:47] Tell us how your children's literature author career began. What was the spark? 

Alysen Bayles [00:28:52] The initial spark was my mother growing up on a farm. And she was a writer, and she read to me, and I was very fortunate to have more books than I could ever read. 

John Reed [00:29:03] What did mother write?

Alysen Bayles [00:29:05] Oh, she loved to write poems. And she also loved to write short stories about different animals on the farm, but mostly poems. And then, she liked to write a lot about horses. 

[00:29:19] But then when I started litigating cases, one of the things I despised, and for some litigators, they'll probably laugh at this, but I despised waiting for verdicts. It was just uncomfortable. It didn't matter how well I thought the case went. I just hated that. So, after doing a debrief with clients, I just had to find another outlet because I was literally going crazy waiting for verdicts. 

[00:29:49] And so I just started writing down different things about, you know, if I could make Mr. Jones into an animal, what animal would I make Mr. Jones on the witness stand into? So, Mr. Jones became a dog or Mr. Jones became a cat or a turtle. And then I just started putting together more and more stories as time went on because I had more than 80 jury verdicts that I had to wait for.

John Reed [00:30:20] “Winston” about a dog was your first book published in 2020, followed by “Silly Sam from Galapagos Land” - Sam's a cat - in 2022, and “Cambridge and Clyde” - Clyde's a dog - in 2023. How long were these stories in your head before you put pen to paper, or were they, while you were waiting for the verdict, ideas that blossomed later? 

Alysen Bayles [00:30:44] Well, Winston was definitely one of the very first ones while waiting for verdicts and I had kind of had the story coming together before my mom passed away now 12 years ago. But she was really the impetus for me finishing that book because she was the one that brought the dog at the center of the story.

[00:31:08] I finished that book shortly after my mother passed. But, after going through a horrible rejection process, as lawyers will appreciate trying to cultivate new clients, it's kind of the same in the publishing world. I set it aside. And then my English professor from college several years later said, why don't you give it another try? And so, I did. And it was accepted for publication in 2000, early 2019. But as some may know, the path to actually getting a book published is really long. And so, it wasn't released until November 2020.

John Reed [00:31:54] I would say not many people, me included, are familiar with the publishing process. So, what was the path to getting Winston published? You talk about rejection, but did you just send manuscripts off to everybody and anybody? Were you selective in the types of publishers you wanted? I'm very curious to learn more about this.

Alysen Bayles [00:32:14] When I did the initial request, which was close to 12 years ago, I sent it to over 300. And that was—it was very random. Of course, I went for the stars, the big publishing houses, all the way down to the little ones. And literally got nothing back other than a few rejections.

[00:32:38] So then when my English teacher suggested that I try it again, I was very selective. I chose a total of 10. I had a focus more on what is called now hybrid publishing, where an author pays. But a lot of authors now are doing self-publishing. That's just not a road that I've ever felt comfortable with. I know it works well for some authors, but it is a really, really complex industry, not unlike the law industry.

John Reed [00:33:12] You write your books, but you're not the illustrator. Who is your illustrator and how did that person not only come into the picture, but how did they capture what was in your mind's eye to produce these final wonderful books?

Alysen Bayles [00:33:27] Well, thank you. Yeah. So, I was fortunate to have my own illustrator, at least in part for Winston, that came about from a court reporter that I worked with who knew a woman and she was very talented and captured the essence of Winston. But then she ended up going overseas to teach. And when my book was accepted for publication, it wasn't feasible for her to finish the illustration.

[00:33:58] So the in-house illustrator at Austin McCauley is the one who finished those illustrations. And then my other two books have also been published by Austin McCauley, and they have had an in-house illustrator. 

[00:34:13] I kind of come up with my very cryptic pictures of what I want for characters. And I may say different colors. And like Silly Sam who's the cat in Galapagos Land, I had a very specific idea of what I wanted that cat to look like. And so, I did my little straw man picture of Silly Sam and sent that off to the illustrator, who ended up putting that together. But no, I'm no artist in that regard.

John Reed [00:34:44] What are the mechanics in terms of you doing your own promotion for it? The books are on Amazon. We'll have links, so don't worry about that, listeners. And I don't want to get too far into the weeds into your relationship with your publisher, but what are your responsibilities and what are their responsibilities when it comes to, each book?

Alysen Bayles [00:35:01] Mostly it is the author's responsibility for publicity in the hybrid model. Now, there are opportunities to have the publishing company do marketing, and certainly they have house marketing people who can identify different markets. But it is mostly up to the author to do that. 

[00:35:24] That's getting on Amazon, getting that site set up, or having somebody build the site for you. Being willing to put your neck out there, again, like a new lawyer trying to cultivate business. How do you develop relationships with bookstores, with schools to get your name out? Of course, you can do the big media markets, if that's what you want to do.

[00:35:49] So it can take on so many different forms and it's ultimately what do you truly want to do? I mean, do you want to have international exposure through large media markets? Do you prefer to be more one-on-one with schools and with indie bookstores? I've developed some really good relationships with some small and independent bookstores as well as a couple of the Barnes and Noble branches. I now have a publicist, which I never thought I would have. So, it's all a matter of what you want to do with it, but it does take a lot of your own time and resources.

John Reed [00:36:28] We know that you haven't quit your day job, although I'm not sure which is your day job anymore. But you did mention your next book. Tell us about Bruce.

Alysen Bayles [00:36:37] Bruce is my beloved grand dog. He was not so beloved when he came into the picture, which could be a story unto itself. But Bruce has turned out to be one of those things, people, I mean, he's really become sort of a person to me that I turn to. If I'm having a bad day and I go to Bruce, Bruce will turn my bad day into a great day because he is just one of those lovable, affable dogs that can bring a smile to anybody's face. 

[00:37:17] He has taught me so much about how to deal with really difficult circumstances. And so, he is now, forming the series of my books about how to talk to kids about budgets and how to resolve conflict and some other things.

John Reed [00:37:38] What other types of messages or tie-ins do you have with other books? We've got a judge in one book, so you couldn't escape that. So maybe talk a little about the messaging that you're trying to get across in your books as well as maybe some other charitable tie-ins that you might have. 

Alysen Bayles [00:37:54] Yes. I would say on my third book, “Cambridge and Clyde,” a portion of those proceeds are being donated to Safe and Sober. Earlier, I mentioned that attorney that I didn't have such a great relationship with, that called me the cold-hearted defense attorney. Well, he actually started Safe and Sober.

[00:38:15] And originally it was started with the premise of Safe and Sober Prom Night and has become so much more than that. We all have difficulties in our lives, and it's very easy to get dependent on any number of substances. And so, Kurt's program, Safe and Sober, has now expanded to keep people from getting addicted to prescription drugs and other drugs, to things from texting and driving. It's so important to be able to give people the tools, and Kurt has his program now, I think, in 37 states. 

[00:38:54] So I think, you know, really the message comes down to what I call and what is now the mantra for what I have founded called Bayles and Bruce. And that's Learn, Live, Love, Read. And I think people have traditionally thought of love as, well that means I have a partner or a companion; I have that relationship. But love is so much more than that.

[00:39:21] And so I think giving people the skills and the tools to learn to live, to love, and to read, it takes fear out of situations. I mean, so much of what drives conflict is fear. It's the things that we don't know. I'm trying through all of the books that I'm writing to cultivate those messages because I think those are critical messages from very young to very old. 

John Reed [00:39:52] That is a great place to end it. 

[00:39:54] I have a soft spot in my heart for writers who can translate a germ of an idea into a captivating story on a printed page. It's magic, quite frankly. It's alchemy. So, I congratulate you for your accomplishments, and I thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. It's been a pleasure. 

Alysen Bayles [00:40:12] Thank you so much. It's been a privilege and an honor.

John Reed [00:40:16] To learn more about the author, Alysen Bayles, visit stickylawyers.com where we have links to all of her books and writing accomplishments. I encourage you to do so. It will bring out your inner child.

[00:40:28] Regardless of where you found us, or you may be listening to us right now, please take a moment to hit the follow button. That way you'll be sure to learn more about new episodes, and you'll also be letting us know that you're a fan, and we would appreciate that. 

[00:40:41] Until next time, I'm John Reed and you've been listening to Sticky Lawyers.