Advocating for Legislative Change to Empower and Protect Survivors of Sexual Violence

[00:00:20] We've talked to lawyers who have overcome hardship before. Sure. But there's never been a guest who experienced a violent crime and channeled that into an extraordinary career and selfless pursuit to change the law for others. Until now.

[00:00:35] Today's guest is Samantha McCoy, an appellate lawyer with Lucosky Brookman in Austin, Texas. Samantha is a very good attorney, and she loves what she does, but she has another job. Perhaps even a calling.

[00:00:48] As a young college student, Samantha was sexually assaulted. She was raped. By a law enforcement officer. As you'll hear, there was no justice for her. In fact, the attack was the beginning of a series of injustices that she was forced to endure, and some of those were caused by gaps and indecencies in the law and the legal system. Was she victimized? Absolutely. Is she a victim? No, she's a survivor.

[00:01:18] It's April and in recognition of Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month, it's my privilege to have Samantha here to share her remarkable story and inspirational journey from a student to a licensed mental health therapist to an outspoken legislative advocate on the state, federal, and global stage.

[00:01:38] Hi Samantha. Welcome to the podcast.

Samantha McCoy: [00:01:40] Hi, thank you so much for having me.

John Reed: [00:01:42] I've talked with many attorneys on the podcast who excel at practicing law. That is, they have a niche or a subject matter expertise, and they represent clients in those areas. You have a practice, and we'll talk about that, but it's your legal advocacy and your drive to enact or change legislation for which you've become known nationally and internationally. You have a lived experience that set you on that path. And to the extent that you're comfortable, could I ask you to please describe what you went through with your assault?

Samantha McCoy: [00:02:14] In my junior year of college, I was unfortunately physically attacked and raped. Through that process, I made the hard decision to go forward and report to law enforcement, and unfortunately, was treated pretty horrifically. I was blamed. I was talked down to. And in the end, I really walked away feeling as though the system was not set up to help survivors in any way whatsoever.

John Reed: [00:02:43] And I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing your story, and I want to talk more about the aftermath. This wasn't just your problems with the legal system and the police department. There are other things that happened to you as well. Can you talk about those?

Samantha McCoy: [00:03:00] So after the attack, I ended up having to go through multiple law enforcement interviews, medical interviews, therapy appointments, everything that comes after an assault. And through that process I ended up missing a lot of work. And my work told me, you know, we're going to have to let you go.

[00:03:21] And it was kind of this domino effect where after I was let go of my job, I no longer could afford my apartment and was ultimately evicted. That led into a point where, for a short period of time, I did live in my car. I was couch surfing, and really hopping around to different places, just trying to make it through each day, day by day.

John Reed: [00:03:45]  The therapy appointments and all the things that were taking you away from work, those were required to pursue your case, correct?

Samantha McCoy: [00:03:53] Absolutely.

John Reed: [00:03:54] And your employer was aware of your situation or were you trying to handle... I mean, I'm trying to understand how much they knew of your situation.

Samantha McCoy: [00:04:04] Yeah, at the time I really wasn't comfortable sharing a lot of what was going on, and out of fear, because the perpetrator was a law enforcement officer. I really kept what was going on very close, and really only me and my immediate family knew what was going on. So, to their benefit a little bit, they really weren't let in on what was going on. But I did express that there were personal issues.

John Reed: [00:04:29] You just brought something up that you hadn't touched on before, and that is that the assailant was law enforcement. How did that affect your treatment? Do you think that because he was part of law enforcement, that that influenced how you were treated when you were going through the police station and the courts, et cetera?

Samantha McCoy: [00:04:49] Oh, absolutely. I genuinely believe to this day that had he not been a law enforcement officer, that he would have been held accountable and arrested immediately. Really the treatment came—the poor treatment that law enforcement imposed on me was a lot of harassment and a way to get me to be quiet and to go away in an effort to, what I believe, saved the reputation of the police department in and of itself.

[00:05:18] He was ultimately after 11 months forced to quietly resign. But it was never a moment where I felt as though I could speak out. And in fact, I was threatened that if I did speak out, I would be arrested for a false report.

John Reed: [00:05:32] No criminal charges against the assailant.

Samantha McCoy: [00:05:35] No.

John Reed:[00:05:36] So 21 years old, this happens to you. At that point, you'd already been studying for your social work degree. Had you planned on going for your master's at that time and how did this shape or influence what you were going to do with your social worker career path?

Samantha McCoy: [00:05:54] I was going, ultimately, to become a mental health therapist and through that process, being that it was my junior year, I actually ended up breaking down in one of my classes. And a professor, I confided in her what was going on. She provided a lot of help. The school provided a lot of support, Title IX resources, and in fact, they created a pantry for me to have basic necessities like food, tampons, that kind of stuff that I, at the time, just really couldn't afford. And they even found me temporary housing. For the school's part in all of it, I really thought they went above and beyond to make sure I could actually graduate. Had they not done that, I don't think I would've ever finished my bachelor's degree.

[00:06:41] I did go on and I did, in an effort to get away from the state, I moved states. I went to get my master's in New York and completed my degree there. I got my license as a mental health therapist, and then while I was working in the field, realized that the same issues that I had experienced were continuously still happening. And it was that moment where I realized that although I can impact somebody on a one-to-one basis, it wasn't to the level where I felt like I was ultimately making a big enough impact, and what was going on in the injustices that were happening.

John Reed: [00:07:24] What was in your head at this point? Was law school entering the picture or were you looking at other ways to make that impact?

Samantha McCoy: [00:07:31] At the time I was a crime victim counselor, so I was in the courtroom a lot. I was counseling victims as they got on and off the stand, and through that process, just the rage that I was consistently feeling when another survivor was treated or failed by the system. It was kind of that light bulb moment where I was seeing these attorneys who weren't trauma-informed, who weren't trained in mental health and, um, the neurobiology of trauma, and thinking to myself how much of an impact this could actually have if somebody who was knowledgeable about this area was actually able to be part of the system instead of just an outside mechanism to help navigate the system.

John Reed: [00:08:15] So rather than just steward people through it, like it's always been, you had this pull to change the system.

Samantha McCoy: [00:08:22] Absolutely.

John Reed: [00:08:23] So, you decided on law school, and this is a question I ask a lot of guests. Did you shape your law school curriculum for what you thought you were going to practice coming out of it? Did you have an idea of what your practice would be once you graduated and how did you arrange your classes as well as your extracurriculars to give you that experience and that knowledge?

Samantha McCoy: [00:08:44] Yeah, I mean, I did a little bit. I was fascinated with a lot of different areas, and I was fascinated with learning as much as I could about every possible... I probably went too broad with it. But I definitely made sure to hit gender studies was a class that I really wanted to learn a lot more about.

[00:09:03] But it was hard because when I was thinking of, you know, I want to serve survivors. Yes, there's criminal law classes that you can take, but they're very basic. It's nothing that's really tailored to serving survivors as like a victim rights attorney or, really anything like that. It was really me just trying to grasp as much as I could with interrelated topics. Even taking something such as international human rights because they had a human trafficking piece to that, and I was interested in learning more about that.

John Reed: [00:09:37] But what you couldn't get in the classroom, you started to do outside the classroom. Tell us about that.

Samantha McCoy: [00:09:42] Yeah. It was my 1L year and I was in constitutional law and trying to figure out how I could impact the system in a broader way. And it didn't take long for me to kind of realize and put the pieces together that legislative change is the best way to make an impact. And so, once I realized that in my 1L year, I decided to start making a list of all of the wrongs that had happened to me in my case and what needed to change about them.

[00:10:14] For example, I was never given an advocate to sit with me during any of the process. And so, I was navigating it alone. And as somebody who was young and very inexperienced, but also whose perpetrator was a law enforcement officer himself, that would've been incredibly beneficial for me to just have a listening ear or someone there for me to help guide me.

[00:10:39] After I made this list, I just started cold calling all of the state representatives and bugging them about how I felt that the system that was set up in that state was just completely faulty and really tried to force them to just listen to me.

John Reed: [00:10:57] What was the response?

Samantha McCoy: [00:10:59] So the first year, I got nowhere.

John Reed: [00:11:03] The first year? So, you kept at it for at least a year. Unbelievable.

Samantha McCoy: [00:11:07] Yes. I had a lot of meetings and there were some very nice people that I met. But I also realized I had no idea what I was doing. And then, within the second year of law school, I was continuing to just reninvigorate the conversation. I was continuing to stay in people's inboxes. I was even flying up to the state because I did not live in the state anymore. So, I was flying back during law school to go to these representatives’ offices to talk to them. And I finally got a call one day from a representative who worked on transportation code, and he said, “My mom is a survivor, and I want to help you.”

[00:11:47] And that was the first time that I was like we're making progress. Like I've made this - it's like the first step in validation. Like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

John Reed: [00:11:58] Was it when you finally had a partner in this legislator, was it then that you learned about the process? You weren't necessarily learning about the legislative process in the classroom, and you weren't getting through to other legislators before. So, tell me about your education with this senator.

Samantha McCoy: [00:12:14] He was wonderful. He absolutely walked me through the process. So, he sat down. I shared my list of how I felt that I was wronged and how not only other states had implemented similar protections and rights, such as having an advocate. I brought the issue and the possible solution, and he was the one who turned it over to the legislative council to really draft it and turn it into a bill.

[00:12:42] And then he really coached me in the sense of, okay, we now need to go get more people on board, get co-sponsors, so can you go advocate and talk to some more offices? And so that was kind of my task was to start collecting additional support. And he did as well. And so, it was this learning process as we were walking through it on how it works, what to expect, and thankfully, he was so patient with me and explaining everything as it was going on and what to expect.

John Reed: [00:13:14] So, your work in New York, what did that ultimately lead to?

Samantha McCoy: [00:13:18] So ultimately, what happened with that, I was invited to testify in front of the state Senate. It passed the Senate by vote, and then it moved on to the House. And then the House holds its own hearing, and through that process, I had to testify again in front of the House, and the Senator testified alongside of me about his own mother's story. And then I testified about my story and why I thought the bill was important. And ultimately it passed.

John Reed: [00:13:50] And what timeframe are we talking about here?

Samantha McCoy: [00:13:53] We filed in January, we had the hearings in March, and it was signed into law at the end of March.

John Reed: [00:14:00] Let's just agree that is unheard of ... Look, I watched Schoolhouse Rock as a kid — I'm just a bill on Capitol Hill. It's just amazing what you were able to do with that. That's fantastic. But you didn't stop there. You decided, well, okay, one state's good. What about another state? Right?

Samantha McCoy: [00:14:17] After I was able to pass that law, I thought why not pass these same rights in the state that I'm going to law school in, in Texas? And so that's what led me into starting to lobby in Texas and led to, in my third year of law school, passing that bill as well.

John Reed: [00:14:36] Wow. So, you get a diploma and also two legislative bills. Fantastic. Unbelievable. It's just so great. I mean, it's a horrible place from which you came, but the results are fantastic.

[00:14:46] What did you think you were going to do with your law degree after graduation? What was, what was on your mind? What was your thinking?

Samantha McCoy: [00:14:53] I knew I wanted to do something that I could in some way use my mental health degree. And I knew I wanted to work with survivors in some capacity, but I also realized the reality of law school debt and student loan debt. And so, after I had a clerkship with an appellate court, and I really liked doing appellate law, I decided to go down the path of making that my full-time job.

John Reed: [00:15:24] Your day job.

Samantha McCoy: [00:15:25] Yes, my day job, and continue the advocacy work on a side basis so that I can not only provide for my family but also feel fulfilled in my life that maybe I can't necessarily get in the day job.

John Reed: [00:15:38] Your first employer when you got out of law school, how did they help you to pursue those directions and find that balance?

[00:15:46] Samantha McCoy: Yeah. So, right out of law school I worked for a private firm for their appellate section, and I told them upfront that I was very passionate about advocacy and legislative work for survivors. I shared with them the work that I had already done, but also the need that still existed. And I was just very frank with them before accepting the job even, that this is something that's non-negotiable to me, that I understand and will fulfill my obligations in my day job a hundred percent, but that I also would need some time off if I needed to go testify for a bill and that I would also need just their general support and understanding that this is something I was going to do

[00:16:30] I was very fortunate. They were very kind. They not only provided me the flexibility to be able to do that, but they were frank in the sense of, we don't care when you do your work just as long as it gets done. And if you want to go do something, we'll support you. And in fact, they often amplified what I was doing on their own platforms as well.

John Reed: [00:16:54] It's good to hear those stories because there are other law firms that aren't as accommodating.

[00:16:57] Let's get into the injustices. You said you made this list, and you talked about not having an advocate with you in the room. Help us to understand what's wrong with these laws, why they're broken, where the gaps are, and what you're helping state legislatures to address.

Samantha McCoy: [00:17:15] There's a lot of issues and it varies state by state, and it varies on the federal level. Some states are further progressed than others, but just from a very basic sense, from my own personal experience, things that I experienced not only included that I didn't have an advocate but I also wasn't guaranteed a trained sexual assault nurse examiner.

[00:17:38] So whoever was taking the rape kit wasn't trained. And so, when they're doing that, and they're not trained, there's a possibility that they're not properly collecting the evidence, and that evidence is key to a prosecution. In addition, there was no information as far as what my rights were. So, I didn't know that I didn't have to pay—by state law, I didn't have to pay for my rape kit examination. And so, I get this bill in the mail, and I immediately am ... I don't have a place to live at that time. I'm already struggling, and I'm trying to figure out how in the world am I going to pay this bill off? Ultimately, it took me years and a payment plan to do that. But then four years later, someone tells me, “Oh, it's state law that you'd never even had to pay that.” It just felt like nobody was guiding me. There was no direction. There was no clarity and there was also no support.

[00:18:35] Even in Texas, for example, right now, something that I've been working on, another loophole that exists, survivors can go and get a rape kit done, and they don't have to report to law enforcement, which is great because some people do not, are not ready. They do not want to. They have a 10-year statute of limitations on when they can change their mind. However, right now they're destroying those rape kits at five years. And so, in theory, yes, you have this 10 years, but survivors that think, “Okay, I have 10 years,” aren't realizing, but the evidence will be destroyed within five.

[00:19:10] It's constant issues that exist on the state level that run the spectrum. Another example of something: I wanted to pursue a civil case against the perpetrator since I wasn't getting criminal justice. I was denied a copy of my law enforcement report. So, without any evidence, without a police report, you can imagine it's hard to find an attorney who would even take that case. And so that's something that I've also been very passionate about is advocating for the right of the survivor to have a copy of their police report if they ask for it.

John Reed: [00:19:45] What was the response when you requested it such that they denied it?

Samantha McCoy:[00:19:50] At first, I wasn't given an explanation, and then when I hired a civil attorney to represent me and to help come forward, it was that it was an open investigation. But that excuse continues to this day. I've never seen a copy of anything within my investigation and initial report. Nothing. Because it's forever going to be marked this open investigation.

[00:20:17] Unfortunately, there was a time when I also went to the hospital, and I had requested a copy of my medical report as well as the photographs of the injuries that I sustained in the attack. And at first, I was told by the hospital that the camera was broken. My attorney pushed back on that and said, "The camera was broken? That doesn't really make sense." And they said, "Okay, well, actually we turned over the originals to the police department. They had requested the originals, so we don't have custody of it. You'll have to get it through them." And then of course, when I went and said, "I would like a copy of those pictures," they say, "Sorry, it's an open investigation. We can't give you anything.

John Reed: [00:21:01] Your situation was particularly egregious because there seems to have been a conspiracy amongst law enforcement, to protect one of its own and not blemish its reputation. So, I want to acknowledge that.

[00:21:13] The other things you described, it seems to be procedure and evidence. The procedure of reporting the crime, coming forward with what's been done to you, but then after the fact, not being able to have the evidence, to obtain the evidence or having it be destroyed if you don't come forward in a certain amount of time under the statute of limitations. Are those most of the things that you're attacking or at least addressing in your legislative advocacy?

Samantha McCoy: [00:21:40] Yes, absolutely.

John Reed: [00:21:42] My understanding is, if my research is correct, you've helped change the laws in four or five states now, but also you've been active somewhat on the federal level and you have, my goodness, testified before the United Nations and a resolution that they've put forward.

[00:21:58] So your efforts in Indiana and Texas first, were you. You were driving this forward. Has that always been you driving this forward or have you— are people now coming to you?

Samantha McCoy: [00:22:08] After I got those two bills under my belt, it really seemed like it grew into more people really wanting to learn how I was doing it. And realizing that a lot more people were also sharing their stories and their experiences of issues that they had in their own states that maybe I hadn't experienced or I didn't know about.

[00:22:29] I was getting messages on social media platforms just asking whether I would just walk somebody through how to do it. And so, the first person that I assisted was in Connecticut, and it was a young woman who had gone through something within her state, and we were able to successfully get that bill passed in Connecticut.

[00:22:51] Then it was this growing of nonprofits who then wanted me to kind of work with them and offer to be a legislative coach to really help other grassroots activists and young people who were interested in changing the laws learn how to navigate the system. And so I work with a lot of nonprofits in the sense that my goal is to help whoever is needing assistance, guiding through it. And I also help individuals if they just really care about an issue, and I also align with that issue.

John Reed: [00:23:23] Are these injustices, gaps, inequities, indignities that you've identified? Is it intentional? Is it unintended sometimes? Is it just a paternalistic set of laws that haven't really been made more uniform? To what do you attribute the gap?

Samantha McCoy: [00:23:42] So I like to think that it's unintentional. I like to think that over time we are realizing not only the impact that sexual assault and rape has on someone but also understanding what contributes to a successful assault case versus what completely destroys it. But I have also firsthand seen that society often does not want to accept or does not realize the true depths of what a rape or a sexual assault does to someone. And so, it's not really paid attention to as much as it should be. It's the one case where the victim has to prove that they're not a liar. I think of cases often, even in the situation of robberies. Like, you're not grilling the robbery victim. "Are you sure? Are you lying?" Or, you know, threatening to arrest them? Oh, it's a ‘he said, she said.’ He said he didn't rob you.

[00:24:46] But in this situation with rape or a sexual assault, it's the default. It's always, well, you are the victim, but you have to prove to us that that actually happened. because we're starting with not believing you.

John Reed: [00:24:59] I'm just struck talking with you, listening to you, that within what, five years? From a decision to come forward to a decision to advocate for yourself, to turn that into advocacy to others, to then be on essentially a national stage. What were you thinking at that time in terms of the progress and the advancement that you made in your own life at that point?

Samantha McCoy: [00:25:26] I didn't necessarily have a plan going into it. I just knew that I could not personally accept what people constantly told me, which was that the system is just the way that it is. It's always been this way.

[00:25:43] My attorney, and I've said this plenty of times, like I'll never forget the day he turned to me, and he said, "Well, there is no justice in the justice system." I just couldn't accept that. It was so wrong to me, and I knew that something had to change, and I didn't know what it looked like. I didn't plan to, in any way, even go into legislative advocacy, let alone law school. But it was just this progression of channeling the anger and the hurt that I felt from my own experience to really try to just make sure that people not only understood the gravity of what survivors have to go through but also to hopefully make a long-lasting change and to get more people on board with how to fix it.

[00:26:31] John Reed: After your success in three states, after your success in Connecticut, looking back over those handful of years since this horrible thing happened to you, did you recognize what I'm sure others did? The accomplishment. That you did that. From a horrible place, not too many years later, here you are, single-handedly, having this huge, huge impact. Were you proud of yourself then? Are you proud of yourself now? I know the work continues, but I just think it's incredible.

Samantha McCoy: [00:27:04] I never really stopped to think about it, I guess. Um, I think I just kind of home in on the fact that there's still so much to do that I never stopped to really take it in or to really appreciate the depths of the impact that it's had. It hit me a little bit after having my daughter. She's one now. But after having my daughter and then having more legislative work, it gave me more purpose in the sense of wanting to continue and realizing that I had made some change for my daughter.

John Reed: [00:27:41] I'm sure that's hugely centering, right? That this little person that you're responsible for, this young lady that you're responsible for, that you're helping in the way that you're helping. That's fantastic.

[00:27:53] Let's talk about the other states as well as the federal and the U.N. Kind of walk us through how you got involved in those other jurisdictions and then how it progressed to the international level.

Samantha McCoy: [00:28:03] Yeah, so about what I've already kind of shared, nonprofits started reaching out, wanting me to help coach and work in other states. And so, for example, I then moved on to Louisiana, where I worked on a bill there and helped coach a young woman through a nonprofit and was able to successfully get that passed.

[00:28:27] And then it was just this constant, like, let's keep the work going. And I had a second nonprofit reach out and I started working with that nonprofit. And so that's the progression of how it's kind of continued to build that. Once you have that recognition and that success, more people kind of seek it out.

[00:28:47] John Reed: And that, and that's how you got to the federal level as well? If memory serves you, you're working with two senators who are on vastly different sides of the aisle right now.

[00:28:57] Samantha McCoy: Currently, I'm working on the Take It Down Act, with Senator Klobuchar and Senator Cruz on image-based abuse. And so, what we've seen more recently, not only in teens but also adults, is the use of AI to create deep fakes. We've learned of apps that will actually undress individuals, so it can be used as harassment on platforms.

[00:29:22] Then also part of what occurred to me was that a video was taken of the assault and was posted online to humiliate and embarrass me. And so that led into this effort of what can we do federally to really help survivors who are humiliated in this way.

[00:29:41] Maybe they've never even met the person, but the person used an AI-generated platform to be able to post this embarrassing photo. And so, the Take It Down Act really aims towards holding tech companies liable for taking down any non-consensual images, whether AI-generated or actual images within 48 hours. It's the first step in a large issue that still needs a lot of work and to be tackled because it's so evolving. And with technology and AI advancing so quickly, I know that more will need to be done. But I think that this is the first time that tech platforms will be held accountable for the facilitation of helping with this crime.

John Reed: [00:30:29] And really when you think about it, that's probably something that only could be done at the federal level. States wouldn't have that power, so I understand that now.

Samantha McCoy: [00:30:37] Absolutely. And especially when it crosses state lines and once it gets out on the internet, it's out of their jurisdiction. So it really does need to be federal.

John Reed: [00:30:47] And then there's the U.N. Talk about that.

Samantha McCoy: [00:30:49] So the United Nations was something that took quite a few years. It was a culmination of probably five years of work. And it was based on this premise that in 2016, there was a survivor bill of rights that was passed on the federal level. And, the thought was, how can we implement this federal bill on a global level, and for the first time ever have on the global platform, a recognition that survivors of sexual violence deserve some sort of protection in a more holistic approach? And that's something that I know has never been done on the global level. When that opportunity came, we worked with Sierra Leone - was actually one of the lead members in that effort, in that resolution. I was invited to speak for that resolution in 2022, in the summer of 2022. And then, in September of 2022, was when it was to be voted on. I got to be there when it was voted on and was successful. I was really proud of that in the sense that it ensured that there was that holistic approach to survivors across the globe. It not only helped with ensuring the right to general things like the confidential advocate, but it also helped with the right to medical care. A lot of people don't think about it, but after you're assaulted, just the basic protections of medicine for prevention of STIs is very important, and that's something globally that we can do to ensure that survivors are protected. And that was included within that resolution.

[00:32:28] John Reed: Such a powerful story. I'm still amazed I'm not talking to a 30-year lawyer here. What you've accomplished in a relatively short time.

[00:32:36] So let's switch gears and talk about your day job, that other thing that you do. Talk about how you've developed as an appellate attorney.

Samantha McCoy: [00:32:45] I've always loved writing. It's something that even as a young kid, I was the nerd who wanted to write in journals and write out all these narratives. And so, I knew it was of interest to me in law school to be more involved on some level where I would have a deeper ability to not only dive into research but also be able to argue on paper and put together, as they say, the puzzle of the appellate work.

[00:33:14] After working for the appellate court and then getting the position within the appellate section, it just all clicked. I love the variety of being able to, you know, one day I walk in, and it's a legal malpractice case, and one day I'll walk in and it's a premises liability matter. And the variety... it's not as heavy as the advocacy work. And so, it's this nice break of being able to test my legal skills, being able to refresh my writing skills. But it also just brings me a little bit of nerdy joy to be able to do that.

John Reed: [00:33:59] I'm seeing some similarities here. One, even if it's just for a client in a single matter, you have the power to change law. So, there is that advocacy part of it. I guess also, I’m curious, how has your horrible experience, as well as the aftermath of that—how you self-educated yourself on the legislative process— you learned how to bring the solution, not just the problem. Has that informed or influenced how you are as an appellate attorney as well? Do you, do you see some commonalities there in how you approach appellate matters?

[00:34:31] Samantha McCoy: Oh, absolutely. I love once I find an issue, I love being able to dive into something and see what creative solutions we can come up with to resolve it, what creative positions haven't been thought of before, and think more outside of the box than just typical, "Here's a template and I'm just going to fill in the names with a template."

John Reed: [00:34:55] I think that there are a lot of people that don't understand that you can be extremely creative despite being limited to what's on the record, you can still be very creative as an appellate attorney.

Samantha McCoy: [00:35:05] Oh, absolutely. It’s the best part of it.

John Reed: [00:35:09] You've worked with some tremendous nonprofit organizations, one of which is the Rape Abuse Incest National Network, and your work with them led to an interesting experience with the New York Police Department, didn't it?

Samantha McCoy: [00:35:24] Yes. So, through RAINN, they have a speaker's bureau, and that opportunity opened up where the New York Police Department had come to me and wanted to contract with me as a trainer for their law enforcement department on how to be more trauma-informed for survivors.

[00:35:45] And so for about a year and a half, I not only shared my story of how poorly I was treated by law enforcement but also trained them on trauma-informed best practices that I had learned in my master's program as well as through my license through mental health. It was a great experience, and it was also very healing. The responses I got from law enforcement were generally very positive. A lot of them saying that they didn't realize how horribly they had been treating survivors and the trauma that they were inflicting on them by their mannerisms, by the way they were conducting an investigation. I walked away from that feeling a lot of healing, especially because he was, the perpetrator was a law enforcement officer, realizing that there was some change being acknowledged.

John Reed: [00:36:36] When I learned about that in researching you, it was particularly moving and I'm glad you say healing because I don't know that I could find the right word for it. I don't think catharsis is the right word. So, healing seems to fit and I'm glad you had that opportunity because you didn't get the justice you deserved when you needed it.

[00:36:52] Back to your legislative efforts. What's on your plate right now? What are you working on? How are you staying involved?

Samantha McCoy: [00:36:59] As I said, the Take Down Act is pending. It has passed the Senate, so now it's pending the House. Hopefully that will be successfully signed into law soon. We're still working on just ensuring it gets across the finish line.

[00:37:15] In Texas right now, House Bill 3119. It is the bill that I had discussed previously, filling in that gap where they will stop destroying the kits at five years and ensure that it stays the 10 years. We are working to get that to have a committee hearing. So that's pending.

[00:37:33] And then in Indiana, Senate Bill 507, the Survivor Bill of Rights, advocating for more rights that weren't necessarily included in the first bill that I still think are very important. And House Bill 1413, which is the most promising in Indiana right now, and I'm most excited about. It's going to hopefully eliminate the rape kit backlog finally. That's been an issue in Indiana for a long time. I think it's over 6,000 kits, um, are still remaining untested. And so, you think about that, that is literally 6,000 individuals who don't know the identity of their perpetrator and aren't getting justice. And so that passed the house. It's onto the Senate. It just had a hearing and we're awaiting the vote. Fingers crossed on that. And then I'm already in the works for next legislative sessions that are coming up in other states. So, but that's what's in the making right now.

John Reed: [00:38:31] You're really an inspiration, so I want to thank you. We'll add links to your bio and some news articles to the episode notes, so listeners can learn more about you.

[00:38:39] We'll put the links to RAIN up there. Any other organizations that you want us to send people to to have the resources?

Samantha McCoy: [00:38:46] Yeah, Equality Now. They work a lot on the international level. I was just in New York for the Commission on the Status on Women, and spoke at the United Nations alongside them, speaking about online exploitation. And so, they're very focused on how online exploitation is facilitating not only abuse but human trafficking crimes. I love them. They're a wonderful organization, and they're doing global work from Romania to Zimbabwe, Zurich. I can't remember all the places, but it's all over.

[00:39:21] And then Rise, that organization passed the 2016 Federal Survivor Bill of Rights Act. And so, I work as a regional coach for them, and I help coach working on rights and helping people who are grassroots advocates and survivors themselves to pass their own law in their own state.

John Reed: [00:39:42] Thank you for sharing your very personal story, and the growth that you've had for yourself and so much good work that you're doing for others. This, this is, it's been a real honor to talk with you and I'm really grateful that you took the time to share your time with me.

Samantha McCoy:[00:39:56]  Yes, of course. Thank you. It was wonderful.

John Reed: [00:39:59] Listeners, please visit stickylawyers.com to learn more about Samantha and her efforts and achievements. And to be a better ally for sexual assault survivors.

[00:40:10] If you've enjoyed this episode, can you do me a favor? Go to wherever you get your podcasts — Spotify, Apple Podcast, YouTube, music, wherever — and click the follow button. When you do that, you'll be sure to get new episodes and you'll be letting us know that you really like what you hear and that you want to hear more, and we would really appreciate that.

[00:40:30] Until next time, I'm John Reed and you've been listening to Sticky Lawyers.